29 July 2005 Friday
if a body Catch a body coming through the Rye
I finished Catcher in the Rye the other day… third time I’ve tried to read it. I know it popularly makes me a lacking person somehow, but I just really found the book uninteresting for myself. I mean… I can see what the general appeal must have been to land it as such a remarkable, notable, classroom-essential, teenage-student’s-favorite book.. but… well, maybe timing didn’t work out properly for me to read it and better identify with it.. “well clearly you’ve never been a typical American teenager.” well, .. maybe. or maybe Holden Caulfield just isn’t anything more than what he is to me. Does it matter if I don’t like him?
I liked his little sister.
For that matter, I don’t like Harry Potter or Clark Kent much either. might all of those not be so different?
But I love that this book (and character) means so, so much to so many people. I love that.
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Comments on if a body Catch a body coming through the Rye
I have to admit, I didn’t like it very much myself, but I did slog through it.
I’ve considered reading Moby Dick for the same reason (to say I have) but I think it’s probably too much to do if you really don’t want to do it.
Everyone seems to have read Catch 22.
I think I’ll read that next.
:
i loved catcher in the rye. i really did. phoebe was cool, but my favourite was the little girl who couldn’t get her skates on…and holden helped her and tried to find phoebe
God! I don’t speak English very well but i hope you will understand me. I have been looking for “if a body catch a body…” song (if that really exist) for months and I haven’t found yet. I always find quotes from The Catcher in the Rye. I like that book but I’m looking for damn SONG lyric. Please help me!
venom1988-1988@o2.pl
hi bullock..
I ran a search that turned up Clandestine:
Is that what you were looking for?
the Catcher in the Rye is one of my favorite books, and its funny that I stumbled on this site because I, too, am looking for that song.
I guess I love it because I can identify with Holden’s sympathy for everybody. Holden finds himself in situations where I have been (i.e. ordering a huge breakfast by yourself only to see two others sharing a modest toast/coffee) and sympathizes for those nice, humble types.
He also honors a strong moral code that most of us also have, yet he feels the shame in being the “nice” guy, or the “yellow-bellied” coward in situations where it seems it is socially favorable to become the physical, aggressive fighter we all WANT to be.
So, no, I don’t think its neccessarily a “teen” book, but instead a book for those of us who feel like the social standard of our times suppresses our desire to be warriors, all the while we remain benevolent and easily depressed at the misfortunes of others.
To lighten things a bit, though, both Holden’s crazy and clever sense of comdey allow for hysterical moments, too! It really is a good book!
i loved catcher in the rye but that’s i think exactly like holden. i dont like movies and actors and i care about getting my vitamins and i always lose my money. i could just totally relate. but catcher in the rye is one of those books that you either really like or you just don’t. there are actually alot of students at my school who absolutely hated the book so don’t worry if it was uninteresting to you.
I don’t like Harry Potter or Clark Kent, either, (or Star Wars, for that matter) and I’m struggling to finish “The Catcher In The Rye.” I tell you, Holden’s continual drivel is simply boring to read. I know realize Holden’s psyche and peripheral issues are what the book’s all about, but at best the book is boring in a curious way. I finally got around to reading this because it appeared in the No. 1 spot on a list of last century’s best literature. Must have been Salinger who put that list together. NOBODY else could’ve, would’ve, or should’ve placed The Catcher anywhere higher than…No. 96!
Post is here but in short, it’s a good book.
This book was very much worth reading, just for the interpretations/written responses in these comments.
Thank you.
And through the lens of your words, it is a marvelously touching and beautiful book.
We’re reading catcher and the rye for english class and I don’t hate it but I am far from loving it…I guess I just don’t understand Holden as a character and some of the messages Salinger is potraiting.I find it a bit of a pointless book with a lot of hidden massages that don’t come across
Bullock, the piece is by Scottish poet Robert Burn who lived in the 1700’s and called Coming Through the Rye. Peace out.
Coming Through the Rye
by Robert Burns
(1759-1796)
Coming thro’ the rye, poor body,
Coming thro’ the rye,
She draiglet a’ her petticoatie
Coming thro’ the rye.
O, Jenny’s a’ wat, poor body;
Jenny’s seldom dry;
She draiglet a’ her petticoatie
Coming thro’ the rye.
Gin a body meet a body
Coming thro’ the rye,
Gin a body kiss a body –
Need a body cry?
Gin a body meet a body
Coming thro’ the glen,
Gin a body kiss a body –
Need the warld ken?
I recently read “Catcher” and very much enjoyed it. I could sense the frustration and energy of emotion contained in Holden’s account. Although the main character was an American teenager from a wealthy family growing up in a time before I was born, I could still relate to his experiences and opinions. We are obviously given the impression that Holden was suffering some kind of mental health breakdown. However, the more I read, the more that I related to him and the more I wondered if he was really the sane one while the rest of society were the ones with the problem! Anyway, my favourite bit in the book was when Holden talks about the “catcher in the rye”, song to his sister Phoebe and explains that it makes him think that his ideal job would be to catch the little children playing in the field who, unaware of the danger, might run off the cliff edge. I think what Holden/Salinger were maybe getting at was that, Holden looked over the edge of the cliff in the rye field of childhood and does not like what he saw in the abyss of the adult world. Therefore, he wants to protect the innocent young children from leaping off. The book reminded me of Peter Pan for some reason – maybe because its author, JM Barrie, lost his small brother during childhood (as Holden lost is younger brother, Allie). JM Barrie invented an imaginary world where such “lost boys” go to be happy and live out their dreams. Unfortunately, though he tries, Holden cannot find escape to such a place.
Steve, you’re a genius! Even though I’ve never read Peter Pan I totally get what you’re saying. My favorite part though is when he’s at the museum and talks about how everytime he goes there he is different. As compared to the museum in which everything stays the same.
Reminds me of how my parents are yelling at me for watching “Friends” over and over. But, the thing is, everytime I see it, I am different person and I see the show though different eyes.
I think the museum is symbolic of his life. That everytime he looks at his life, even though things may not have changed, he has. And sometimes, it is these things that change him. Like, if he has a different partner, he may not like that person and be “sad as hell”... or if his parents had a fight, then the cave people would remind him of his parents and that fight and then provoke him.
And there are things in life (the museum) that may depress him as hell, and if he is depressed that day it may depress him more and usual. Or, if there is something that cheers him up, then he would no longer be depressed.
i’m reading catcher in the rye, and i personaly don’t like holden much either, but i don’t think i’m supposed to, sorta, like he’s easy not to like… i like his insights though, i’m not sure… it’s an interesting book
lord I hate that book so much. I never feel bad for holden. he’s just kind of an unmotivated guy with poor grammer and zero willpower.
sure, I do feel bad that his brother died and that he has a depressing backround, but I really have no sympothy for victims. I know many people who face more daily challenges than “old crumbly (god I hate that word) Holden Caulfeild”. A lot of the problems he faces in his life are caused by him and him alone.
I really got sick of him. Within the first chapter I was ready for him to get pnumonia like he said he would.
i have to say The Catcher in the Rye is pretty much my favorite book. I’ve read it at least 4 times now. And it seems to be that a few people got here by looking for song lyrics, as did I. well, I thought it was a poem, but maybe it’s both.
I have to say I liked the book for a few reasons. One being i love the way Holden talks. The way he’s so real about everything. Even though he admits to being “yellow” i can totaly relate. Like when people try not to be scared of anything but they just can’t. It’s just not in them. And in that way, I think it could be considered a teen book. I’m sure many teenagers have gone through that kind of feeling. I also love Holden because he seems like the kinda guy, that if you met him, he wouldn’t be real open to you like he is in the book. If you knew him a while i’m sure he would be but if you were just meeting him, i think he would be kinda distant. But the thing is, he’s really not. It goes back to him wanting to be the Catcher in the Rye. He wants to save all these kids from hurting themselves.
The part I could really relate to though was when he met up with Sally. He goes into this deep thought and is talking to her about it, but she just doesn’t understand. I always have these real deep things and I just want to tell who ever is around me. And sometimes I do, but they just look at me like I’m some freak and they have no idea what I’m saying.
I heard about “Catcher In The Rye” from a friend of mine and am just a few pages away from completing the book.Though I am an Indian and haven’t experienced American teenhood but I must admitt that it has been a fine read hitherto and I have been able to relate to Holden’s character quite often than not.The reason I like the same is because I find he is honest about his feelings in the first place.And what draws me more towards liking him is his dislike for the “social sophisticates’.Salinger has an eye for observing passing but significant feelings.I feel many a times even I would mentally react the same way he does but would like to keep that within myself, as Holden does , so that I don’t hurt anyone’s feeling and sentiments…...is a simple narration but quite meaningful.
My favorite thing about this book, hands down, is how much some people love it.
I see what you did there. The disinterest. The thinking it is all poobah. I guess you’re imitating Holden a bit. Don’t you think?
Interesting, Fernando.. I’d like to say that’s a brilliant interpretation.. and I think it is a solid one.. but I really think it has more to do with me expecting more from Holden. On the one had he feels a lot, and he’s obviously a deeply caring person. But then he dismisses so much and declares himself so ineffective as well. I don’t think he’s terrible. I think there’s room for him to grow. I just can’t exalt him or his story the way I know that many do. Again, I’m very glad they do. I like the book so much more for how much it means to so many people.
Maybe, less than the disinterest/imitating Holden thing, I’m doing more of a balancing thing.. that is something I do..
that’s so funny) I’ve just been looking for that song as many others) and ended up here. I’m now re-reading the book, because I feet like it. The impression is completely different from the one I had some 4 years ago. Maybe partly because first it was a translation.
I fing it absolutely stunning, in many respects. There is a lot to be understood and felt. The book is amazing.
I read the book and it is drivel. It’s depressing from start to finish. His character is weak and seems to just stagger through life bouncing from one failure to another. I’d rate this book somewhere between a rectal exam and eating broken glass.
I read Catcher in the Rye when I was a student (about 30 years ago) and I didn’t like it/understand it.
I read it again just recently. I found it very moving. See what time does to you!
What does catcher in the rye mean and wad does the song mean????
i fraggin love the book
I’m almost done reading the catcher in the rye book and can say- it’s good. Short and pretty fun. Im reading alongside it the works of Milton. So it makes a great change to go from something so damn immense to fairly short novel.-The meaning of the title in answer to i’m in the Rye guy is-in the dream holden tells to phoebie of him being a catcher on a cliff of kids who might otherwise take a fall.
One of the things that intrigues me about this book is the subtextual dissonance. Holden tries very hard to appear blase and disinterested but he is actually highly passionate about what is going on around him. He talks about how he doesn’t care but this generally happens when he is the most hurt/disappointed/frustrated about things. He is like a lot of people in that respect: he does not want to acknowledge how deeply he is affected by the way things turn out in his life. Rather than admitting that he feels rejected/betrayed/let-down, he adopts a world-weary attitude and pretends not to care. However, the reader knows that the core desire of his life is to be a catcher in the rye…in other words, to protect children from the same disillusionment that he has suffered, which clearly shows how passionate and empathic he truly is. When viewed through a psychological lens, Holden could be said to use his apparent disinterest as a defense mechanism, protecting himself from further emotional harm.
Many readers have commented that they don’t understand why people idealize Holden. I think that the key to appreciating Holden is accepting the fact that he is deeply flawed. He’s disorganized, inconsistent and deeply hypocritical. However, his flaws are part of what make him so accessible to readers. He is like all of us in some way and we have all felt some degree of alienation. He is an excellent example of an early postmodern antihero.
On a side note, for those of you who like this book…have you seen the movie “Tadpole”? If not, I highly recommend it.
I read catcher in the rye about 3 years ago and absolutely adored it, I’ve now read it about 4 times since. I don’t really understand how people can say they don’t like it.. sure it’s not got some dramatic storyline with lots of twists.. but does a good book have to have that kind of thing in it? No. I liked Holden, and they way the book is written. It’s so belivable and .. great [:
I don’t know if there is any recordings of the robert burns song unfourtunatly,
its a good book . good and i reaaly mean that, no phonyyy i finish it just before the minute .“dont tell
any thing to antbuddy “
as many other i came on this page, because i was searching for this poem…
i’m reading catcher in class and i really like it. not many in my class do, but i think it’s quite interesting and funny. it’s also the way holden is hyper-sentimental or even crazy, that makes me love the book. in some strange way he reminds me of myself…
i also think that the scene with the museum is the best one, but i haven’t finished the book, yet.
all i can say, is that this book is really great and worth reading it…
So after 25 yrs, I have finally read this book! Phew!
I admit that the first couple of chapters irrated the hell out of me and I almost quit reading it. As I pushed myself through it and got use to the way Holden repeats himself constantly, I was finally able to get into it. So much so that I couldn’t put it down until it was finished.
I believe that there can be many interpretations and ideas regarding this book (as seen above). I also believe that every person will have a different opinion. Mine, for whatever its worth, is that Holden’s honesty about everything, including himself, is refreshing. I wonder what the book will show me in another year. Will it be like the museum trips for Holden? We’ll see…
Hmmm. All these comments are quite interesting. I only came here to find the exact song(or poem?) that is referenced during the scene with the little boy singing.
The problem with that scene is there is almost no context. I guess from what you guys are saying is that it is explained later on.
From what I have gathered so far the little boy singing is one of if not the most important part in the book symbolically.
I’ll do my best to try and explain the symbolism:
Holden is walking along depressed and he sees this poorer family walking away from church. They are walking on the side of the road unaware of their child who is in the road singing the song.
The significance of the poorer family is that even though they are poor the child is still happy. He does not care about wealth, while Holden during the nun scene says that “money makes me blue”. As a child money does not really matter and is not the key to happiness, while in adulthood it is. This depicts how the capitalistic American dream is not good enough for the next (Holden’s) generation.
The child while singing the song is going along the road is completely unaware of the cars passing by close to him. His parents are unaware as well. What this represents is the trails and tribulations that one as an adult has to partake in. The fact that the parents do not notice the child shows that he is all alone is the road. He will eventually become aware of all the “cars” in his life that threaten his life and well being. Holden is in this adolescent stage where he is fully aware of life through his adult perspective and is depressed/hurt at the sight of it.
Now the song…After reading through it (thanks to Alicson) this supports the theme of children being unaware of “the abyss of adult life” (See Steve’s post). Holden like the speaker of the poem wants to protect children from the dreaded reality that he has to face. The narrator in the song keeps children from crying and gives them love/warmth. This shows how warm and sentimental Holden really is despite his careless bored exterior. This relates to the teenage and even the adult psych. Everyone has their moments where one shrugs off their problems (such as Holden Failing) by trying to be emotionally numb/jaded towards their life. Despite what one wants, everyone has a warm sentimental side and we all have our individual emotional trials throughout our lives.
I’m going to stop now because this is getting too touchy-feely. Although, this is the reason why Catcher is in the Rye is so popular; everyone can relate to Holden and/or the book’s symbolic message.
Jeez I wrote a lot…well this is going to help me a lot later on and hopefully you guys as well ;)
-Nick
what has Holden against adults ?
I was never forced to read this in school but became interested after watching “Conspiracy Theory” with Mel Gibson. Can anyone explain the symbolism of this book in the movie?
jesus, most of you are bigger “phonies than some of the people in the catacher in the rye if you really liked the book you should have ended it with a sense of everybody is a bastards cause thats what holden basically thinks.. but alot of you folks just sorta wana soud like your so “marvelous” its really annoying ya know. idk really how to explain it its just your over complecating the whole meaning of the book… i dont know
and by the way, I do have the Robert Burns song, for If a body meet a body coming through the rye.. :) download on Ares…
Ok Im reading The Catcher and The Rye for school and i love it! Alot of people say they hate Holden but i think he is just someone who needs to open up. I love how he goes off on rants and how he changes the subject
Thank you for the words to Comin Through The Rye. My husband and I are in our 70’s. We were trying to remember all the words to that song this morning. Now I won’t have to go around humming it all day long. Have a GREAT Thanksgiving
The ironic thing here is that the person who originally posted the comment — and how he doesn’t like “Catcher in the Rye” – sounds JUST LIKE Holden Caulfield!
Holden’s known for his honesty — especially about things/people he doesn’t like — and employs a rambling discourse that is frequently interrupted by his simple opinions. He tries always to see something good in whatever he’s talking about, but usually ends up seeing only the negative. He’s a “bullshit detector” if you will (forgive my French) — i.e. he hates phoniness, and phoniness is everywhere in 1950s America. He’s a totally original character in American literature — honest to a fault, with no pretense whatsoever — and it’s what makes him and, therefore, the book such a classic. As just one example, here’s Holden talking about the show he saw on Broadway with Sally (Ch. 17): “The show wasn’t as bad as some I’ve seen. It was on the crappy side, though. It was about five hundred thousand years in the life of this one old couple. It starts out when they’re young and all, and the girl’s parents don’t want her to marry the boy, but she marries him anyway. Then they keep getting older and older. The husband goes to war, and the wife has this brother that’s a drunkard. I couldn’t get very interested. I mean I didn’t care too much when anybody in the family died or anything. They were all just a bunch of actors. The husband and wife were a pretty nice old couple—very witty and all—
but I couldn’t get too interested in them.”
The original poster doesn’t realize it, but he’s perhaps been influenced by Holden’s (judgmental) view of the world and his style of talking. And just look around! There’s never been so many Holden Caulfields in existence at one time! — i.e. the U.S. and Europe today. A case of Life imitating Art?
hmmmm… I read/skimmed the majority of the posts and found it quite bewildering that no one mentioned the fact that he was narrating the events in his life from a mental hospital…at the end of the day. Meh…idk, just a bit baffling to me, that’s all. The fact he was even in a mental institution in the first place seems of utmost importance to me (when dissecting the piece), because in many ways it suggests the fate of people who are meh…dare I say..“yellow”?? Or “green”?
Just a thought.
…lol it’s funny, I said I wasn’t gonna comment but whatta ya know?
As a side note, I wasn’t looking for the song…actually I was just doing some personal research on Robert Burn’s infulence on Salinger’s book…since he just died, and since I never had to read this book, (perhaps not an Advance Placement requirement like say, The Odyssy, The Scarlet Letter, Beowulf, Their Eyes Were Watching God etc…lol no disrespect intended if you know…we dont have that in common..seriously) I figured I’d see what all the fuss was about. Leave it to me.
Sweet.
Just a note to depressed teens out there: do not attempt to read this book until you are feeling better. I’m reading it now in my 40s and finding it fascinating, and remembering my response to the book in my teens. I identified so much with Holden that what little hope I had leeched out of me page by page. Bleak indeed. Thank goodness for the perspective age gives you.
This book is brilliant. If you are a teen/early twenties, you may or may not like it, depending on your own life experiences up to this point in time. Personally, I think I would have liked/loved it in my late
teens, as I would relate to many of his negative perspectives on things as they are in this world. (Yes, my adolescence was hard and I did feel depressed much of the time.) However, I think I appreciate the book far more now, as an adult, more than 30 years past adolescence.
Holden is unfailingly honest, passionate, funny, tender, confused, sad, depressed, hurt, angry………He cares deeply about people, but does not understand why people have to be so gamey and
phoney.
His devastating disillusionment alongside his tenderness for children, the poor nuns, etc., is extremely moving.
If you are reading this as a teen/ young adult and don’t
like it much, please do your
self a huge favor and read it
20 or so years from now. I’m
more moved and in awe of Salinger’s ability to write this masterpiece than ever.
so disillusioned about the way people are
I’m an old guy. I’ve read hundreds of books. I’ve even written a few. Okay, more than a few. But I just finished Catcher the other day. And looking for something else about the book, I found your nice little article.
I read Catcher when I was 15 or 16 and I really didn’t get it. Truth is, I only pretended to read it. I just skimmed it enough to write and pass a test.
I liked what you wrote. You have a good style. I don’t disagree. Except that I just finished it the other day, and it had a way different meaning for an older man than it did for the younger one of me. Come back to it in 30 or 40 years…
what page does the little kid sing the song? cant remember.
Reading the book made me realise how conventional I actually am. It’s so weird how most of us spend ages trying to fit into this certain way of being (and this is everyone. even those in groups who seem individual), then it turns out we would have been happier with the way it was before. I remember reading how Holden wanted to keep everything pure (with the snow), to stop the children in the rye growing up and how confused and vulnerable he is, despite acting “real suave” and wondering why people don’t accept his more ‘mature’ persona,wanting to go out west and live a simple life. I could completely relate to it, as a sufferer of ASD who finds it hard to relate to the adult world and all of its scary changes.
The bit that clinched it for me though is at the end of the penultimate chapter, when he talks about having to let Phoebe fall and learn from her own mistakes. He managed to grow up and accept what was happening around him, and it gave me a little bit of hope that I would get there too.
An amazing book. I can’t believe that this managed to influence a whole generation of people in the 60’s, aided liberation, and that some schools still have it banned from their libraries because of “explicit content”. Please.
I am in seventh grade and reading the book for the second time. GREAT BOOK!! I love Holden’s cynical personality and they way he tries to act more mature than he is. I think that he is a little unstable underneath his “big boy” persona, though.
I just finished reading the catcher in the rye and personally i did not like it at all. It was just a boring book to read. The whole time Holden is talking about how he is depressed and how stupid little things depress him. I’m sure some form of the word depress was used over 100 times. It was very annoying when he would start talking about one thing and then he would go off topic about silly little things.
i`m just starting to read the book….i just got past holdens first mentiond date in the book…..i understand how he feels to…i have the same feelings but didnt really understand why so thanks to the person who poyinted out it was like a defence mecinism….and for the nice person who person who posted the song…thats what i was looking for…..
We are reading the book in English class. Our teacher is constantly saying that Holden is crazy, and I am disturbed by the fact that he tells his story from a mental institution. Perhaps it is because I actually agree with him on mnay points. The world is a scary and false place and it would be incredible if we could protect innocence and abolish phoniness from society.
I’m 16 on Sunday : ) and I’m finding that at this stage of my life the world saddens me. There’s a girl in our class who used to have a brain tumour, and she is the most innocent, sincere and kind person you will ever meet. What kills me is that the other girls in our school can’t even be sincere when talking to her. Everything has to be fake. They mock her behind her back and are constantly looking down on her, not even realising that they should actually look up to her as they are the ones who have something wrong upstairs. Other girls in my school are ostracized for not having enough money to go to socials or wear the latest brand clothing. Even best friends are so fake. I really can’t stand it. This is probably why ‘Catcher in the Rye’ and my class’s interpretation of it really annoys me. I don’t think Holden is at all crazy, because if he is, then lock me up too. Society rejected him and could not understand the truth he spoke about the world we live in, so they had him certified. This just proves what a horrid place we are living in.
If Holden was not a fictional character, he would be my best friend – though I think I might tell him to get his grades up ; )
I say again: I love* the thoughts, feelings, comments that this book inspires.
And some of the best people..
I like you guys so much.
Thank you.
I really enjoyed this book. I just could not stop reading it once i had started. Language used in “The catcher in the rye” is very easy and rhythmic which made the reading process very much enjoyable.
I am currently revisiting the greats in American lit and I just read “The Catcher…” I
personally thought it one of the best books I have ever read. So so funny while being agonizingly poignant. I understand why it is in most everyone’s Top 25 or so.
I hate the catcher in the rye
I have to read it for school but I think Holden is just a perpusless teen how drinks to much, is depressed by everything and hits on women way to old for him. Readers should listen to his sister she knows her stuff:“You don’t like anything that’s happening… You don’t like any schools. You don’t like a million things. You don’t”
if a body meets a body
coursing through the rye
then a body meets a body
and two bodies equalize
(like hell)
Neon-cruising Neanderthals
Burbling phony-lipped shitstreams
And from a solitary sidewalk skew
All the rage and hurt on the wall – Fuck You! Fuck You! Fuck You!
Nicotine-buzzed uncaring trudge
Backpack-slouched untoughened grunt
Transiting sideways and hopping back
Another good guy all set to finish last.
Inside, outside, and shit everywhere
Almost buried beneath the unturning tide
The ugly night breaks
And sweet sister savior slips alongside.
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